Graphic HGSS Sea Tileset feedback

This thread's author wants feedback on a sprite or other graphical art. Be constructive.

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Hello there guys. Today I get out of my comfort zone and tried to make some HGSS style tiles. Since I couldn't find a way to make the default sea as seen (pun not intended) in HGSS, I've decided to make my own. The only problem is, the motion wasn't the same as it looked in Aesprite, so I figured, why don't share with people and see if they like it? So here it is the end results:



The Autotile used



The end result in RPGMXP

So, what do you guys think? It just me or the water animation is way broken in RPGMXP?
 
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DogzNDogz113

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Wow, I didn't know that. Living and learn, I suppose

UPDATE # 03

So, for those curious about my following statement:


I want to share what did I found until now. I started with Spiky's DS Map Editor tool, where I manage to grab the original Sea tile used in HGSS:



The issue started right when I discovered its proportions. You see, since RPG Maker tiles are, as default, 32x32, I've run into some issues trying to port the exact same tiles from HGSS into my project. The reason is that the default tile from HGSS is undersized if compared to RPG Maker (the undersized default tile would be 16x16, but we normally resize it 2x to make it work in RGP Maker). As it is, the default tile from HGSS is already 32x32, and if I resize it 2x, it would not fit. This is very important when we see how the Autotiles work:


If you would go to RPG Maker XP with this auto tile and draw it as a 4x4 square, those purple tiles would fit perfectly into one another, forming a diamond shape figure. So my logic was simple: I would split the 2x HGSS tile into 4 and put every part into one of those 4 "purple" tiles. Sounds like it would work, right? However, this logic only considers that simple 4x4 square shape. If a person would do a more complex shape, it would totally break the tiles, as shown below:



This is important because if the dev wanted to make a crazy coast, like a peninsula or a beach, the autotile would break, making a total mess.

That's where comes to my second approach. Use the HGSS tile as it is, as a 16x16, undersized. This would make everything fits perfectly, like a glove, However, the undersized tile would conflict with the rest of the oversized tiles, as shown below:



This would be way worst at the Small Screen Size since the game would need to compress the tile in order to make the 2* 2-pixel density tiles became 1*1, which that particular autotile already is...

Needless to say, I think I hit a dead end. I'm fairly proud of my custom tile, but I really want to make the default HGSS work as intended. The closest I got was with this autotile, which I managed to make work in the same 2*2-pixel density as the overall environment. But I still needed to make some sacrifices in order to achieve that:



That may not look that different, but a very well-observed person may notice that I did compress that initial HGSS double-sized tile into a 32x32, in order to make the pixel density and the tile size consistent. That is why the tile might appear a little bit... I suppose the word is, janky?

Well, anyway, this was the best I could do so far. I still think that the answer lies somewhere in here, waiting for me to decipher this puzzle to reveal itself:




But that it's it for today. After a day of hard work, I'll recharge my batteries and see if my mind can think of something. If not, then I might be done with this particular autotile

Thank again y'all for helping me with your feedback and knowledge.
It should be noted that if you wanna do complicated shapes with beaches, ledges etc, you can simply have a barebones water autotile without even ledges, on the 1st layer covering a small area behind the ledges/edges, and simply draw with complicated normal tile ledges whose one side can be transparent on top, in the 2nd layer.
 
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DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Sorry you guys for the late response. It's have been a crazy week, and I didn't have too much time to answer all the people I needed.

Still think it looks amazing and that you did a great job! 🌟

Thanks for your feedback. My only hope is that I keep improving until I outdo my own expectations

It should be noted that if you wanna do complicated shapes with beaches, ledges etc, you can simply have a barebones water autotile without even ledges, on the 1st layer covering a small area behind the ledges/edges, and simply draw with complicated normal tile ledges whose one side can be transparent on top, in the 2nd layer.

Yeah, I still testing some theories of mine to see what works and I think you're right. But on the other hand, I would kill two birds with one stone if a kept the ledges since I could add the waves crashing against the rocks animations, all in one autotile, which would be great when the dev is mapping in RPG Maker XP, cause it would require the least amount of layer usage.
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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UPDATE # 04

S'up guys.

So, it's been a few days since I last posted my so-called "experiments" with autotiles, and I wanted to show you the (probably) final version of the Sea Autotile and the Lake Autotile:

Sea Autotile

HGSS Sea.gif



Lake Autotile

HGSS Water.gif



Though it's not a 100% accurate recreation, I think I did nail the style. Also, I say it's probably the final because I may want to come back change one or two things. Now

What do you guys think about these new renditions I did? I don't know, I still don't like the bottom left waves that much, but this was the best that I could make with RPGM Maker XP limitations. Would you guys use it in your projects? Cause I was thinking to upload these in a HGSS Tileset Pack
 

Ranko

Aloof Unmoving Maiden
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UPDATE # 04

S'up guys.

So, it's been a few days since I last posted my so-called "experiments" with autotiles, and I wanted to show you the (probably) final version of the Sea Autotile and the Lake Autotile:

Sea Autotile

View attachment 4044


Lake Autotile

View attachment 4045


Though it's not a 100% accurate recreation, I think I did nail the style. Also, I say it's probably the final because I may want to come back change one or two things. Now

What do you guys think about these new renditions I did? I don't know, I still don't like the bottom left waves that much, but this was the best that I could make with RPGM Maker XP limitations. Would you guys use it in your projects? Cause I was thinking to upload these in a HGSS Tileset Pack
It's really clean! Nice work, I'd definitely
 

DogzNDogz113

Arbiter of Doggos
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UPDATE # 04

S'up guys.

So, it's been a few days since I last posted my so-called "experiments" with autotiles, and I wanted to show you the (probably) final version of the Sea Autotile and the Lake Autotile:

Sea Autotile

View attachment 4044


Lake Autotile

View attachment 4045


Though it's not a 100% accurate recreation, I think I did nail the style. Also, I say it's probably the final because I may want to come back change one or two things. Now

What do you guys think about these new renditions I did? I don't know, I still don't like the bottom left waves that much, but this was the best that I could make with RPGM Maker XP limitations. Would you guys use it in your projects? Cause I was thinking to upload these in a HGSS Tileset Pack
Well done, great job!

Just a minor suggestion (seeing as these things are subjective and all). The white waves on the top layer could be a little bit bigger. What I mean by this is:

ex1.png


this seems to be repeating much too often and makes the waves feel "cluttered"

while something like this (please excuse the fact that it doesn't even repeat seamlessly, it's for demonstration purposes)

ex2.png


makes the waves look bigger and a bit more "realistic"

I'm not even sure if that's possible with how the autotile pattern works in RMXP though.
===============================================================

Once again, congrats on your tiles!
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Well done, great job!

Just a minor suggestion (seeing as these things are subjective and all). The white waves on the top layer could be a little bit bigger. What I mean by this is:

View attachment 4053

this seems to be repeating much too often and makes the waves feel "cluttered"

while something like this (please excuse the fact that it doesn't even repeat seamlessly, it's for demonstration purposes)

View attachment 4054

makes the waves look bigger and a bit more "realistic"

I'm not even sure if that's possible with how the autotile pattern works in RMXP though.
===============================================================

Once again, congrats on your tiles!

Oh, I totally agree with you. Actually, I was trying to go to the same uncluttered waves as you said, but due to how RMXP autotiles works, this was an almost impossible task. You see, RPGXP autotiles are divide by 3x3 tiles of 32px square that repeat themselves seamlessly. Since these waves are 64x64 (actually, 32x32, I count as 2x because of their 1*1-pixel density), they won't fit into these 32px squares, so I have to take one wave that fit the 32px and insert it in the tile. Since one wave fits that 32px tile, RMXP will repeat the whole tile seamlessly, making the waves looking cluttered.

Reducing the waves won't work that well, cause technically, they're already reduced (RMXP works with 32x32 tiles, but I prefer to work with 16x16 and then use software to double its size). So, if I reduce that 32x32 to 16x16 waves to be workable with the one repeating tile, the effect of the waves getting bigger and smaller will break (because the wave tiles are already small, they won't just "shrink", they'll also lose it's form, unlike when I double its size). If I use the 1*1 waves in the 2*2 tile, they won't fit with the rest of the tileset and the same problem related above will happen if the player chooses to play in the small screen size.

A know it's a little confusing, but it makes sense when you start working with RMXP autotile limitations.

However, I still don't want to throw to towel. I was brainstorming some ideas yesterday and I think I can use one of my older solutions, though it's somewhat experimental and will require some instructions of use (especially considering the ground layer and the 2 layer of the map). I think it could work, especially now with the new v19 event size function, but it will all depend on how the dev will make its map and how he will be able to work around some of the limitations this solution will bring.

But I digress, this could be the only solution that will work around RMXP limitations while looking good. Just wait and see. I'll post my final update/thoughts soon
 

DogzNDogz113

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Oh, I totally agree with you. Actually, I was trying to go to the same uncluttered waves as you said, but due to how RMXP autotiles works, this was an almost impossible task. You see, RPGXP autotiles are divide by 3x3 tiles of 32px square that repeat themselves seamlessly. Since these waves are 64x64 (actually, 32x32, I count as 2x because of their 1*1-pixel density), they won't fit into these 32px squares, so I have to take one wave that fit the 32px and insert it in the tile. Since one wave fits that 32px tile, RMXP will repeat the whole tile seamlessly, making the waves looking cluttered.

Reducing the waves won't work that well, cause technically, they're already reduced (RMXP works with 32x32 tiles, but I prefer to work with 16x16 and then use software to double its size). So, if I reduce that 32x32 to 16x16 waves to be workable with the one repeating tile, the effect of the waves getting bigger and smaller will break (because the wave tiles are already small, they won't just "shrink", they'll also lose it's form, unlike when I double its size). If I use the 1*1 waves in the 2*2 tile, they won't fit with the rest of the tileset and the same problem related above will happen if the player chooses to play in the small screen size.

A know it's a little confusing, but it makes sense when you start working with RMXP autotile limitations.

However, I still don't want to throw to towel. I was brainstorming some ideas yesterday and I think I can use one of my older solutions, though it's somewhat experimental and will require some instructions of use (especially considering the ground layer and the 2 layer of the map). I think it could work, especially now with the new v19 event size function, but it will all depend on how the dev will make its map and how he will be able to work around some of the limitations this solution will bring.

But I digress, this could be the only solution that will work around RMXP limitations while looking good. Just wait and see. I'll post my final update/thoughts soon
I am looking forward to seeing what you you can come up with!
Your work is very nice so far. Good luck!
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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FINAL UPDATE - I FRICKING DID IT!!!!!!!

As you can see in the image below, I've managed to make a workable HGSS sea tile that preserved its form in the Small screen size and which it's faithful to the original tiles. Here's a comparison from old to new tiles:



The way I did it was simple, yet, somewhat complicated (it took me almost twice the frames of animation I've used in my old autotile) and it will require some instructions in order to be correctly drawn in RMXP. If you want to see more of the process I did in order to achieve this, I could explain in more detail, but for now, I'm proud as hell to make such a smooth animation.

Now, where do I go from here? Firstly, I want to state that I'm confident enough to start making an HGSS Tileset resource since I've realized a lack of tiles (especially animated) from Gen IV. I know that there is HGSS for RMXP from SirMalo, but apart from the buildings, nature, etc there's still a lack of well-animated autotile (like for example, the sea tile) and that's why I wanted to focus a little bit more on Gen IV from now.

I won't release this autotile just yet, I'll see if I can talk with SirMalo, maybe help him with his resource or even launch the animated tile as a separate, compilation of Animated HGSS Tiles Resource. Apart from that, my next step is to rework the waves crashing against the walls, cause I think I could do a better job on it, try to make an animated Rock Tileset.

Since I don't want to use this particular post as my HGSS Feedback, I'll start to post about my "experimentations" on my DeviantArt Gallery, cause I think the original purpose of this post was reached, because of your guys tips and feedbacks =D

If you want to add some feedback or ask something about my HGSS Sea Autotile, feel free to it.


Thank y'all for all of your support, especially, DogzNDogz113, WolfPP (which provided some of the sprites I've used in the autotile), and KP17, for always being there cheering to my newest attempt
 

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