Fakemon: Do You Need Them?

Fontbane

Not a Russian Troll
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Posts
85
#1
This is a major topic for fangame discussion. What do you think about putting Fakemon in games? How do you prefer them to be implemented? Do you think they should be implemented? How can mixing them with the canon effect your experience? Discuss!
 
#2
I think Fakemon are great! Not every game needs to add their own Fakemon of course, but for me, I always have more fun trying out Pokemon I've never used. Fakemon allow you to try new type combos, stat distribution, abilities, movepools,-- everything! There's so many possibilities for Fakemon which is why I love them so much.
With Alolan Pokemon introduced, it seems games can go that route instead of creating an entirely new creature design, which is equally as great!
 

Sparta

Someone who does something.
Member
#3
Eh, I'm going to go with no, you don't need them. Sure, they add a nice touch to a game if they're done well enough, but I find that most of the times they're really not too good. Fakemon are rather difficult to pull off, mainly because there are several things that they need to get right in order to feel right. They have to have a design that fits (especially if you're mixing with canon Pokemon), they have to be well-thought out in terms of type, and movesets, abilities, evolution, and so on. And have to do that for 100+ (I think that's the average number nowadays) is tasking and time consuming. I'd say there are few dev/dev teams out there capable of pulling off Fakemon in a decent capacity.

On the other hand, some pros for Fakemon are that they add a whole new experience to a fan-game. It's like getting to explore a whole new generation. Running around going "oh, what on earth is this?" and realizing that "Oh, this must evolve into that" and the "hey, that looks awesome! I want that" was always my favorite part of Pokemon games back in the day. Fakemon can add a bit of zest to a fan-game that might otherwise not stand out too much.

So all in all, Fakemon are a lot of hard work and take a lot of know-how to pull off, but the outcome can be rewarding to some. I personally don't care much for them, but it is sometimes nice to see something new and fresh every now and then.
 

Dragonite

Have they found the One Piece yet
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Posts
235
#4
If you are troubled by unpopular opinions, I suggest you skip this post (◡‿◡✿)

Do you need them?

Absolutely not. This is like asking if you need to know how to implement Dijkstra's Algorithm whilst blindfolded in order to print out "Hello, World" on the command line.

What do you think about them?

I don't like them. I've played over two thousand hours of cartridge Pokémon and now matter how much time you spend designing your own to look like the authentic thing, they're going to stick out like a sore thumb. There are more than enough real Pokémon to fill my team rosters for literal decades before I get bored of them.

How do I prefer they be implemented?

I prefer them to be not, but if you have to please try to distribute them throughout your game in a logical fashion instead of just flinging your favorites on Route 1 and giving up.

Do you think they should be implemented?

No.

How can mixing them with the canon effect (sic) your experience?

See "what do you think about them."

You can crucify me later.

Edit: wasn't originally going to include this for fear of people taking it personally, but if you decide to make fakémon please don't make them look like you spent five minutes in MS Paint designing them.
 

Taq

Sandwich Master
Member
#5
For my answer it is going to be a bit of the grey area, because it will determine how dedicated you are to doing this.
Actual designs by teams take months (starters the even longer) and they figure out together how to make them interesting.
maybe that's a reason for a lower amount of new designs.

Anyway, what I was saying is if you take time to actually work on them and pull them off nicely, then it's a success, however, if you are. Lazy with them and don't do any redesign or have a thought processs, then it's a failure. So it is based on your efforts.

Another thing is just try to make them fit with what you are trying to do, is it meant to be gen$? Then make it fakemon based, it is a focus a new story focussing on enemies working and it involves with thing you know already? Then don't put them in. Basically don't put them in if they have nothing to do with it.

Overall, they are based of multiple factors, that will determine what you will do.
 

Aki

Starry eyed
Administrator
#7
Need them? Not at all! Games can find other ways to feel fresh than swapping out the dex.

As for my thoughts on Fakemon...there's some really awesome fakemon out there! But as a dev, man, that is so much work involved that I don't want to work on a Fakemon game. There's just so many aspects that go into it.

Just look at moves. What moves should the fakemon learn? How often on level up do they learn the moves? Then there's TMs and HMs First you've got the Ability, and probably a second ability...Are both of those equally likely to appear, or is one of the abilities way more common? Oh and then is there a way to get the hidden ability? Gotta balance with the movepool to make sure it's not too exploitative with any of those...Now is there breeding? Just the concept of chain breeding certain moves onto a pokemon is complex, but there's gotta at least be egg moves or something to make breeding really worthwhile.

Oh boy then there's Design. Should this Fakemon's appeal be more of a cute, or a cool style; maybe something gross or creepy, but with a loveable aspect. Is it obvious enough what type it is, or are the colors implying something else? Is it appropriately simple/complex for the evolutionary stage it's at? How about all the evolutionary stages together, do they have good progression?

And of course throw on stats and stat balancing, I don't know math. :sweat:

THEN DO IT ALL 100 TIMES TO FILL A WHOLE DEX??!

I'm pretty excited that Regional Variations of Pokemon have become a part of the main series, because I think for fan devs it strikes a sweet balance of fresh uniqueness while also keeping things familiar and cutting some workload (since it doesn't have to be an entire dex and a new "design" could be as simple as a color change).
 

Evan

in another life, Starrcasm
Member
#8
Fakemon, as said before, are just a whole other beast to tame. There is so much that goes into designing them, not just physically but in-battle, with stats and movesets, balancing to the rest of your dex (is it all fakemon, a mix, etc?) So I'd say for Fakemon there's definitely a lot of thought you need to put in before tackling that beast. In the end, do what you feel is most fun--for me as a developer, I enjoy coming up with Pokemon from the ground up, stats, movesets, lore, etc. But it isn't other peoples' cup of tea.

I personally don't like it too much when they're mixed with older Pokemon, but that certainly won't affect my player experience.
 
#9
Well, of course you don't need them, but I personally think that Fakemon are great! I think they can really add something extra to fan games, and make them feel like a whole new generation instead of just a one off game. Of course, fan games without fakemon are just as fun, and sometimes even more fun, since you need a lot more than just Fakemon to make a good fan game! (I mean, despite how much I like Fakemon, the only fan game I've ever released had only official Pokemon in it :P) I'm not sure if this is a common opinion or not, but I actually like mixing canon Pokemon with Fakemon. Not only does it allow you to have a larger Pokedex (imagine having a Pokedex of 250+ with just Fakemon you've e designed! That would be way too much work!), but in my opinion it makes the fan game almost more authentic? I mean, the only times we've seen a complete Pokedex of just new Pokemon in the official games was in gen 1 and gen 5. Every other time we've seen a mix of old and new Pokemon, so why should we treat Fakemon exclusively in one way?

Oh oh and also about what @Dragonite said about Fakemon always sticking out. I've seen several videos on YouTube where someone who isn't a Pokemon fan has to decide between a Fakemon and a real Pokemon over which is official, and a lot of the time, the person has difficulty choosing, and they often get it wrong. I think this shows that if you're not a huge Pokemon fan, and a Fakemon is well designed, in actuality they probably do fit in together.Oh, hi there confirmation bias
 

clockstops

Novice
Member
Posts
28
#10
If there's Fakemon or not doesn't really matter to me. The most important thing to me for a fan game is the story. Is it captivating, is it good, etc.
 
#11
Do you need them in your game? Absolutely not. You should decide what's best for your game, not anyone else. Use Fakemon if you really want to.

Just know the amount of work that goes into them and what you're getting yourself into. I've never taken an honest stab at Fakemon personally, so I'm not reflecting on experience here but the amount of detail that goes into a well crafted Fakemon is huge. I'll echo some of the sentiments earlier in the thread, making completely scratch Fakemon (not just recycling a similar movepool from a canon 'mon, etc) is hard work.

With that out of the way...

What do you think about putting Fakemon in games? / Do you think they should be implemented?
I'm for it, if the author feels it's something they want to do. Who am I to dictate what they do/don't do with their game?

I was never a huge fan of Fakemon in the past, to be honest. The game that really sold me on them was Ethereal Gates, playing that game felt like playing Black/White all over again. I truly started to appreciate Fakemon from there on out.

How do you prefer them to be implemented? / How can mixing them with the canon effect your experience?
Ultimately it doesn't matter to me. I think it's more impressive and immersive if all the 'mons in the game are Fakemon, but that's a tall order. If you mix your Fakemon in with canon ones, just make sure the quality of your designs is up to par. I feel like people probably judge Fakemon more when they're side by side existing stuff. Then again, people are just generally critical of Fakemon I guess.

I really like catching Fakemon and reading the dex entries for them. That's a lot of fun! Thanks for keeping your dex entries interesting, if you do that.
 

Evan

in another life, Starrcasm
Member
#12
Actually, on the point of mixing canon pokemon with fake pokemon, something that I've found that helps the "immersion factor" (and something we were planning to do in Pokemon Helio Version, the predecessor to Ethereal Gates) was having the person who was spriting the fakemon ALSO sprite the canon Pokemon you were going to include. It helps the canon Pokemon "fit in" better.

Here's what I'm talking about better


Seeing Koffing in Mark's style made it feel more like a Pokemon that fit into this game.
 

Domiok

Local Goof
Member
#13
As Shgeldz elegantly put it, it's first and foremost the developer's preference. If you feel like a game, like your game, needs Fakemon to succeed but lack the drive to make Fakemon, you're bound to have struggles with creating Fakemon for your game. If you have your heart set on designing Fakemon, then the "necessity" of having Fakemon in your game or the lack thereof shouldn't stand in your way. The same thing goes for if you're more passionate about structuring your game around the existing Pokémon.

It's interesting to see how different demographics feel about needing Fakemon in a fan game to keep the game engaging. By just what I've noticed, developer communities appear mixed, leaning a bit in favor of Fakemon. Pokemon fan communities tend to prefer an absence of Fakemon; while, a lot of fan game players demand Fakemon in the games that they plan. I would love to see a single survey float around a bunch of different communities on the topic to see how they feel collectively feel about Fakemon in fan games. Developers should focus on what they want out of a game the most, yet player feedback is important too. Just knowing why people may or may not enjoy Fakemon helps with understanding what makes them or the games about them better.

I would say that I am personally not a huge fan of Fakemon just because many fan games have designs for Fakemon that just don't appeal to me. The biggest offender comes from wild or sloppy visual designs. Otherwise, my issues can come from places like power level or role in the world. But when a game nails Fakemon design right, it's a stellar time. I would never discourage Fakemon, but instead, I encourage developers to do the best that they can do with their Fakemon designs. Fakemon, probably above other aspects, are the face of most fan games. Seeking feedback, taking leaps with ideas, and pushing for better quality can help you transform your Fakemon into captivating creatures. To me, that's what it takes to turn a Fakemon game from a potentially off-putting experience into a fresh, awe-inspiring experience.
 
#14
Do you want to have Fakemon? That is the real question.

Of course, you don't need Fakemon. Personally, I love 'em, and including them will definitely brighten up my experience. They're great for having a fresh new twist in your game. You don't need to make a full dex either. Mixing Fakemon with real Pokémon is also a thing if you don't have the time or skill to make 100+ designs. Just make sure that the artstyle is good to fully immerse the player in the experience. And even if you've got good designs, but poor artstyle: still try and include them. It will help develop your artistic ability so you're able to tackle more stuff yourself.

However, I would advise against doing Fakemon for the sake of it. Only include Fakemon if you have the creativity and energy to create them. Otherwise, your project will be slowed down - a lot of people promise a full Fakemon dex in their fangame which impedes their progress.
 

TheGamingPaladin

TheGamingPaladin - Youtuber, Foodie, Gamer 4 Life
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Posts
96
#15
Personally i'm 100% for Fakemon across the board, new Pokemon add more to the Fan Game for me, but they have to be done properly, Poorly Made or Poor Performing Fakemon is a deal breaker as far as i'm concerned.

so since my Fan Game includes 151 Fakemon to be implemented, i am not going to leave them half-baked, they will have proper sprites, animations, etc.
 

Djaco75

MasterMind
Member
Posts
155
#16
Personally i'm 100% for Fakemon across the board, new Pokemon add more to the Fan Game for me, but they have to be done properly, Poorly Made or Poor Performing Fakemon is a deal breaker as far as i'm concerned.

so since my Fan Game includes 151 Fakemon to be implemented, i am not going to leave them half-baked, they will have proper sprites, animations, etc.

To add onto this, Fakemon sprited improperly or have poor move-sets/abilities can lead to a negative reputation of the game. My number one tip is if you're going to have Fakemon, spend a bit of time and effort into making them look good so people actually want to see them in the game and they add to the game's reputation, not take away from it.
 

updawg734

Whats up, dawg?
Member
#17
I do not think Fakemon are necessary by any means. However, I think the majority of this discussion is entirely up to the game developer.

I personally think Fakemon are wonderful. I'm working on a game will a full dex of them, and im no professional spriter by any stretch of the imagination. I am rather proud of what ive created using very basic programs. Maybe they aren't the best quality, but in my opinion, a redeeming factor is that they all are of a similar quality/look. I'm making my battle backgrounds personally as well. Again, while maybe they won't be the BEST artistically or technically, I think they will look good within the game, since that's how the artwork will look throughout. In my opinion, it gives the game a creative and unique aspect.

Just my thoughts!
 
#18
Fakemon, though they are completely optional and not required, allow a dev to mold their region how they see fit, and create dificulty and level curves with such precision that isn't entirely possible with regular pokemon
While you can adjust regular pokemon (and it's better when you do!) If you change official pokemon a bit too much, it becomes a little confusing for players who are used to a certain poekmon's stats and viability, where as if you have a totally new pokemon, they learn it on their own, or read up on it.

Another advantage you get from Fakemon, is giving a new sense of adventure - a major selling point of PEG's demo was a familiar experience but a brand new adventure, a rekindling of what made you love poekmon from the beginning!

The way Nuclear Omega handled Fakemon in his game was also great, he created a whole new meta and was able to create type combos and battle strategies that you could only dream of.

Utilizing fakemon in these ways, rather than as a novelty is definitely the way to go. Don't have Fakemon just to have them, use them for a reason.
 

Djaco75

MasterMind
Member
Posts
155
#19
Fakemon, though they are completely optional and not required, allow a dev to mold their region how they see fit, and create dificulty and level curves with such precision that isn't entirely possible with regular pokemon
While you can adjust regular pokemon (and it's better when you do!) If you change official pokemon a bit too much, it becomes a little confusing for players who are used to a certain poekmon's stats and viability, where as if you have a totally new pokemon, they learn it on their own, or read up on it.

Another advantage you get from Fakemon, is giving a new sense of adventure - a major selling point of PEG's demo was a familiar experience but a brand new adventure, a rekindling of what made you love poekmon from the beginning!

The way Nuclear Omega handled Fakemon in his game was also great, he created a whole new meta and was able to create type combos and battle strategies that you could only dream of.

Utilizing fakemon in these ways, rather than as a novelty is definitely the way to go. Don't have Fakemon just to have them, use them for a reason.

Just adding here, Fakemon are great for player exploration and letting the player explore certain areas of the game you have created. However, it is important, more than Canon Pokemon, to write detailed dex entries for them to let the player know what they're having on their team and maybe include some interfaces which let the player see what Fakemon it is, its evolutions, stats, moves etc. so the player knows what's happening. There's nothing worse than seeing horribly executed Fakemon concepts and moves.
 
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